You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

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• Who said you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain meaning?
• Who said live as a villain die as a hero?

Now I'm fairly certain I've been saying that line for at least ten years, don't know where I heard it, but now someone pointed out I was referencing The Dark Knight and I honestly couldn't believe it when I googled the phrase and found nothing but Dark Knight sites.

That expression must be older than 2008. Right?

asked Mar 19, 2013 at 19:48

13

It's highly likely that the quote originated from The Dark Knight movie. Apparently, Batman (and other super-heroes) was inspired by Friedrich Nietzsche, a German philosopher. A lot of aspects of Batman are inspired by Nietzsche's beliefs which would explain why the movies seem very philosophical at times.

Along with the fact that there seem to be no references to this quote prior to the movie release (or any variation of it), I conclude that it did in fact originate (at least main stream) from the movie.

• Source: Nietzsche and the Superhero
• Source: A philosophical basis for the Batman saga
• Search: Batman + philosophy (tried to add as a link but wouldn't let me)
• Search: Batman + Nietzsche (tried to add as a link but wouldn't let me)

There is also more proof of this in the book, Batman and Philosophy: The Dark Knight of the Soul. While it doesn't specify the quote, it does discuss the connection between Batman and Nietzsche.

John

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answered Mar 22, 2013 at 23:56

DustinDavisDustinDavis

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This quote was attributed to Bill Finger who died in 1974, he was best known as the uncredited actual creator of Batman

answered Sep 9, 2014 at 13:26

JimboJimbo

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Although this exact quote may have been first said in the dark knight many men have addressed the philosophy of the corruption of a good man's soul.

"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Frederick Nietzsche.

answered Aug 7, 2015 at 19:12

This quote does originally come from the film. Harvey coins the phrase (no pun intended) in response to Rachel's comment abot Caesar. He isn't using a common expression, but it does come off quite eloquently. Still it is very similar to the philosophy of Michael Foucault who criticized political and social figures who turn to abusing power for indulgent convenience.

answered Mar 24, 2013 at 4:11

MattMatt

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I agree that it's almost difficult to believe, but sometimes Hollywood coins a phrase that really resonates.

Another example of a phrase that everyone uses but which came from a modern day movie: "bucket list" from the film The Bucket List (2007). Nobody had ever used that phrase before the film was produced.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-origins-of-bucket-list-1432909572

So the phrase you pulled out does indeed appear to have originated in The Dark Knight. There is simply no other earlier source for that quote anywhere.

Kudos to Jonathan Nolan and Christopher Nolan for coining something that seems to get truer with each passing year.

answered Jan 20 at 2:35

Django ReinhardtDjango Reinhardt

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Who said you either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain meaning?

Who said live as a villain die as a hero?